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skynet888
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 Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2023 4:53 am Post subject: Why does CE have to set a breakpoint before it can set a con |
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| Why does CE have to set a breakpoint before it can set a condition? Instead of setting the condition first and then setting the breakpoint? If you break the process first and then set the condition, it will be too late, because the process will already crash before the condition is set.
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Dark Byte
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2023 4:55 am Post subject: |
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pause the process first, then set the breakpoint and then resume the process
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byteburner
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2023 9:02 am Post subject: Re: Why does CE have to set a breakpoint before it can set a |
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| skynet888 wrote: | | Why does CE have to set a breakpoint before it can set a condition? Instead of setting the condition first and then setting the breakpoint? If you break the process first and then set the condition, it will be too late, because the process will already crash before the condition is set. |
to monitor all kind of variables, arguments.. etc., a breakpoint must be set there is no other way around unless the processor is built is such a way to log everything separately and having other free components to dissect in parallel real-time while execution which there is not.
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skynet888
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| Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2023 5:32 pm Post subject: Re: Why does CE have to set a breakpoint before it can set a |
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| byteburner wrote: |
to monitor all kind of variables, arguments.. etc., a breakpoint must be set there is no other way around unless the processor is built is such a way to log everything separately and having other free components to dissect in parallel real-time while execution which there is not. |
Set the conditions before setting the breakpoint, when the conditions are not met, the program execution will resume, and when the conditions are met, it will pause.
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byteburner
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| Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2023 6:41 pm Post subject: Re: Why does CE have to set a breakpoint before it can set a |
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| skynet888 wrote: |
Set the conditions before setting the breakpoint, when the conditions are not met, the program execution will resume, and when the conditions are met, it will pause. |
Dark Byte already gave you a solution.
And let me get this straight. So when CE breaks with certain conditions your process is not crashing? And it's only crashing when you break before setting conditions? But why. For me this doesn't make sense.
Either it crashes on breakpoint or not. Maybe what you are experiencing is that after you set the breakpoint it is taking you a while to set the conditions and the OS (or maybe the process' watchdog) is shutting the process down because it's in halt state AKA it's dead.. Or as a protection from the watchdog.
My Windows is set to wait 10 seconds before it force closing a process. Notice that this is different form a process being busy working but not responding that's when Windows asks you whether you want to wait or force closing it.
Also please note that any kind of checking of anything related to a process running will trigger the interrupting registers which will cut the process flow. From there on, it depends on the process' and OS' watching mechanism that will determine crashing the process in question.
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skynet888
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2023 8:28 pm Post subject: Re: Why does CE have to set a breakpoint before it can set a |
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| byteburner wrote: | | skynet888 wrote: |
Set the conditions before setting the breakpoint, when the conditions are not met, the program execution will resume, and when the conditions are met, it will pause. |
Dark Byte already gave you a solution.
And let me get this straight. So when CE breaks with certain conditions your process is not crashing? And it's only crashing when you break before setting conditions? But why. For me this doesn't make sense.
Either it crashes on breakpoint or not. Maybe what you are experiencing is that after you set the breakpoint it is taking you a while to set the conditions and the OS (or maybe the process' watchdog) is shutting the process down because it's in halt state AKA it's dead.. Or as a protection from the watchdog.
My Windows is set to wait 10 seconds before it force closing a process. Notice that this is different form a process being busy working but not responding that's when Windows asks you whether you want to wait or force closing it.
Also please note that any kind of checking of anything related to a process running will trigger the interrupting registers which will cut the process flow. From there on, it depends on the process' and OS' watching mechanism that will determine crashing the process in question. |
It seems that you have no experience in debugging the processes I mentioned. Some applications that involve multi-threaded synchronization and other techniques will crash about 1 second after you interrupt it. Also, some processes cannot be suspended directly by calling "SuspendProcess", which will cause the program to malfunction. If you set the breakpoint first and interrupt the process for 1 second, and then you rightclick to change your conditions manually, 5 seconds will have passed and you will be too late. So I suggest that CE allows users to input conditions before setting a breakpoint.
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byteburner
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2023 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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True. I'm still pretty new to this. And I understand what you are saying. But the question remaining, considering the scenario you just described. How in this case setting the conditions before setting the breakpoint will make any difference? It's seems like you have to deal with the proces' mechanism so it won't crash on the breakpoint.
If I'm not getting it please elaborate more.
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skynet888
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| Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2023 12:04 am Post subject: |
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| byteburner wrote: | True. I'm still pretty new to this. And I understand what you are saying. But the question remaining, considering the scenario you just described. How in this case setting the conditions before setting the breakpoint will make any difference? It's seems like you have to deal with the proces' mechanism so it won't crash on the breakpoint.
If I'm not getting it please elaborate more. |
It's easy to understand. If you just press F5 to set an unconditional breakpoint, the process will pause the first time it encounters the breakpoint and then crash, and you won't get any meaningful results. But if you break the process under the conditions you want, even though it still crashes after a second, you get the conditional results, such as register values and memory values.Besides, The "to deal with the process mechanism" you suggest is not as simple as just saying it.At least for a program like this.
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STN
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| Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2023 10:17 am Post subject: |
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You can pause upon CE attach no need to attach debugger
Also might be possible with lua to do this within 5 seconds
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skynet888
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| Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2023 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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| STN wrote: | You can pause upon CE attach no need to attach debugger
Also might be possible with lua to do this within 5 seconds |
You don't seem to have read the above discussion. The best way to solve this problem is for CE to allow users to input conditions in advance before setting this breakpoint. This is my suggestion for the future of CE. And you are talking about a solution in the absence of a better solution now. And if we write lua to solve this problem every time we encounter it, how long will it take to solve this problem 500 times in the future? Don't forget that the "conditional breakpoint" feature, is a common feature in debuggers, and CE adds it as a matter of course.However, the current CE is only to set an unconditional breakpoint by F5(where the thread has been unconditionally interrupted and suspended), and then let the user enter the condition, which will crash the processes whose threads cannot be suspended for more than 1 second. And repeat it again, these processes can't be suspend by “suspendprocess”.
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