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open-source Windows OS

 
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OldCheatEngineUser
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2022 7:16 am    Post subject: open-source Windows OS Reply with quote

just imagine that Laughing
though for real, I read a rumor somewhere regarding the possibility of this Rolling Eyes

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2022 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Multiple versions of Windows' source code have leaked in the last few years.
Along with source code for the original Xbox and Xbox 360.

Currently, the newest versions to leak have been:
- Windows XP
- Windows Server 2003

Other leaked sources include:
- MS-DOS 3.3 + 6.0
- Windows NT 3.5
- Windows NT 4.0
- Windows CE 6.0 & 7.0
- Windows 2000

The XP leak was confirmed legit as someone was able to compile it and get it fully working. (Required some files off a legit Windows XP install disc.) Microsoft has DMCA'd all videos showing the effort for that but it can still be found on the net elsewhere.

As for an active development open-source Windows OS, currently, the closest thing is ReactOS.

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OldCheatEngineUser
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know about XP leak, as I had the source in past. (I had a copy of MS-DOS too, as they donated the source code to some universities for educational purposes and rumor says it was leaked from there)

atom0s wrote:
As for an active development open-source Windows OS, currently, the closest thing is ReactOS.


After researching, I can conclude whoever wrote the article regarding open-source Windows OS was such a dump; as he/she did not mention ReachOS, so I thought they were referring to the real Windows instead of open-source replacement.

It is interesting, a clean-room reverse engineering; thanks.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

atom0s wrote:
Multiple versions of Windows' source code have leaked in the last few years.
Along with source code for the original Xbox and Xbox 360.

Currently, the newest versions to leak have been:
- Windows XP
- Windows Server 2003

Other leaked sources include:
- MS-DOS 3.3 + 6.0
- Windows NT 3.5
- Windows NT 4.0
- Windows CE 6.0 & 7.0
- Windows 2000


I don't know, I think I saw a torrent with Windows 7 source code a while back. The 7zip file that was over 40 gigs, including Bill Gates' plans (videos) on vaccinating the world to reduce the population without anyone knowing.
The problem is not source control, the problem is security.
Windows is such a piece of crap that it'd be hacked to smithereens before you know it.
How do you think all those ransomware came to be right after the source code leak?
MS is trying to fix that shit, and that's the reason why the OS is requiring stronger and stronger HW to run.
Ever used Linux? Open source and runs on any crappy PC you can find just fine. It's a very different design.
MS won't be able to make this happen without a major change in the OS that would essentially put all legacy software in limbo. If they do it, it will be more secure but it won't run shit and people will turn to Linux to run legacy Windows shit. If they don't do it, there is no chance to make it open source.
Easy as that.
Happy spamming, everyone!
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OldCheatEngineUser
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Csimbi wrote:
Windows 7 source code a while back.


AFAIK it was a leak for few components, not the while system. (couple hundred megabytes of text only)

~

There are other (older) leaks that vanished, leaks that don't contain any source code; but contains other bad shit.

Csimbi wrote:
How do you think all those ransomware came to be right after the source code leak?


It is as if you are stating that ransomware and other bad code came to existing right after the leak; though I am sure you didn't mean to imply this.

How about the floating desktop thing (I don't remember it name) that caused lot of damage to pre-Windows-NT era, namely Windows 9x.
What about Win32s (note the s, for subset), Windows NT, Win2K and the rest... MS had and still have high desktop market share, and with bad design you should expect more than malwares to target their system; though this is not an indication of success.

Csimbi wrote:
that's the reason why the OS is requiring stronger and stronger HW to run.


Or perhaps it need all that power to run more background services, spyware, and logging.

Csimbi wrote:
If they do it, it will be more secure


It is business, and that what happens when *** (yes three asterisks for three letters) pay to plant back-doors and security holes into your product.

~

There are many things to say, and it would be impossible to list everything. Nor It is wise idea to mention some names on this website.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Csimbi wrote:

I don't know, I think I saw a torrent with Windows 7 source code a while back. The 7zip file that was over 40 gigs, including Bill Gates' plans (videos) on vaccinating the world to reduce the population without anyone knowing.


That leak didn't contain anything for Windows 7. The file list of that is here:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eit7f0fXkAA2E28?format=png&name=medium

The newest stuff that has leaked was some driver/kernel-related things for Windows 10, but nothing major or enough to remake the OS.


Csimbi wrote:

The problem is not source control, the problem is security.
Windows is such a piece of crap that it'd be hacked to smithereens before you know it.


The same can be said about every operating system, including Linux. There are plenty of enterprise flavours that are closed source. The idea that being open source is somehow better / more secure has proven time and time again to not be true at all. The most recent example, the Java Log4j exploit. Another common example, Node.JS and how their package system is setup. The entire ecosystem is open source, but malicious actors can hijack deleted accounts/repo names to push infected packages to previously valid usages. Bad actors can also just one day decide to push infected scripts to millions of users.

There is currently a push from big tech giants like Google to try and get the government involved in helping oversee open source projects for security concerns.
So no, being open source is not better.

Going open source will definitely see a higher rate of exploits being discovered, but that would be no different to how code review works already on current open source projects, including all the various Linux distros.


Csimbi wrote:

How do you think all those ransomware came to be right after the source code leak?


Every operating system is vulnerable to ransomware. The only reason its seen so much on Windows is because it's the 2nd most used OS in the world, trailing behind Android. There is more money to be made in focusing on the 2nd most used OS vs. going after something like Linux, that has less than 5% of the market share in the world. Most enterprise setups in the world today are based on Windows machines. While big data centers do make use of Linux and other OS's, it's not the top dog for deployed workstations.

Look at the most targeted places of ransomeware. Hospitals, schools, retail outlets, governments, central infrustructures (electric, water, other grids, etc.) Then look at the operating systems that these places are using the most. The highest used is Windows. And in a lot of cases, it's Windows 7. It is very common to see established businesses not rolling out or deploying full site-wide updates to machines (ie. going from Windows 7 to 8/8.1 or 10) for quite a while beyond the lifespan of the previous OS. It is also very common for high-security risk systems to stay on locked down operating systems with custom software like governments still using Windows XP on a lot of machines.

The biggest issue with most articles that cover these exploits and mentioning Windows is that they don't mention the actual version being used. Which leds people to believe all these places getting hit are on Windows 10 with latest security updates. That is hardly ever the case. Most exploits being abused are targeting these older machines and older operating systems. A lot of the abused exploits are already fixed in the newer versions.


Csimbi wrote:

MS is trying to fix that shit, and that's the reason why the OS is requiring stronger and stronger HW to run.


Not really.

The original pushes for new hardware on Windows back in Vista was mainly RAM. Their revamped UI (Aero) required more resources as it ran with DirectX as a backend instead of the older DIB/GDI/GDI+ framework. This also meant that newer video cards were expected to at least support DX9, which was going to be a requirement going forward anyway for gaming. So this wasn't really a big deal. The UI revamp was just poorly done so it ran like garbage and used a lot of resources wastefully.

Windows 7 didn't change the requirements from Vista much at all and was a heavily enjoyed OS.

Windows 8 / 8.1 also had the same requirements as Windows 7.

Windows 10 was the first instance where requirements were starting to be enforced. But that was not specifically Windows' fault. Instead, Intel, for example, decided to start enforcing newer CPUs to use Windows 10 by not releasing chipset drivers for older operating systems. (This was believed to be done as an OEM partnership deal with Microsoft to try and get more adoption of Windows 10 as the newer CPUs were being released, to try and hit Microsofts 2 billion user goal.) Other partners were slowly dropping support for older operating systems in their drivers (ie. Nvidia and AMD) and game developers were starting to make use of newer APIs that are only available on Windows 10.

Windows 11 is the first time we're actually seeing requirements at the OS level with the new TPM 2.0 requirement. But again, it's a soft requirement. You can still install and run Windows 11 without it.

People across the web have also proven that Windows 11 can run on extremely old machines, far below the minimum specs that MS has suggested. The base CPU speed requirement is only 1GHz still, the same as Windows 7, 8, 8.1 and 10.

Microsofts goal with Windows 11 is to bring it up to par with other systems that make use of security chips, such as MacOS and their other devices. It is not a 'stronger' hardware requirement, it is a more secure one. And it is currently still optional with some caveots.


Csimbi wrote:

Ever used Linux? Open source and runs on any crappy PC you can find just fine. It's a very different design.


Again, being open source does not automatically mean your project is better than another.

Windows can also run on old crappy machines. People have proven that Windows 11, the newest OS, can still run on old machines. There are videos on YouTube showing people installing and running it on things as old as Core 2 Duos and other 15+ year old hardware. Microsofts hardware "requirements" are more of suggestions on what they recommend you run with for a optimal experience.

Developers of any kind of software (OS or not) give things lifespans for a reason. No one wants to have to continue to support old/dead hardware indefinitely because a small portion of people have it laying around still. People have already proven that Windows 11 can run on 15-20 year old hardware, but expecting Microsoft to support it directly is honestly just a poor mindset. The device manufacturers don't even support that hardware or sell it anymore, why should software developers be expected to continue supporting it when they don't even make it?

There is a reason Linux has such a low adoption rate still today and holds only like 2% of the desktop marketshare in regards to operating systems. Their lack of support for devices and gaming. Linux and Windows have a different design setup with drivers, which is something that hurts Linux currently. Tons of hardware just straight up doesn't work on Linux because there are no drivers or lack of fully working drivers for said devices. As well as lack of support from vendors of said devices putting time and resources into developing drivers for Linux. Application support on Linux has also been the other biggest factor. Mainly gaming, and the lack of actual support for it in a general user sense.

If the goal is just to browse the web, open some documents / email and print some things, then sure, Linux can be a compleely viable replacement for that set of users. However, in the actual real world of using production software for various fields, Linux is just not there. The same goes for gaming. However, I will agree that Steam is helping push that side into a better place with the SteamDeck and Proton. If their goal of full 100% working status of the entire Steam library is true, then that will be massive for Linux. However, based on what has been seen so far, it's just not there still and they've delayed the release of the SteamDeck because of it.

The other biggest issue with Linux is the lack of user friendly setups for everything. Some things have gotten better with the various package managers, but once you start getting into less mainstream software, it becomes a nightmare for non-tech savvy users to deal with trying to get something installed and working. The second you expect a general user to open a terminal and start manually doing things is the same second you lose them as a Linux user.

Linux has a very bad track record of being an elitist environment in regards to general users looking for help. Work has been done with some distros to try and change that perception but it is still something that Linux, as a whole, carries on its back because of the very vocal minority that treats newcomers poorly.


Csimbi wrote:

MS won't be able to make this happen without a major change in the OS that would essentially put all legacy software in limbo. If they do it, it will be more secure but it won't run shit and people will turn to Linux to run legacy Windows shit. If they don't do it, there is no chance to make it open source.


How do you figure that? Making use of the TPM chip is entirely optional. The only software that has seen any issues has been DRM related things like Denuvo, and even then there were hardware related issues with that on newer Intel chips, not a Windows issue. This issue has also already been resolved. There's like 3? games left on Intels 'todo' list to get working.

Original known issue game list:https://dotesports.com/hardware/news/all-the-games-you-cant-play-on-intels-12th-gen-alder-lake-cpus
Updated news from Intel stating the issue is fully fixed: https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000088261/processors/intel-core-processors.html

I haven't seen a single piece of software straight up stop working just because of Windows 11. There has been some bugs, but they have been resolved fairly quickly.

You can find a status progress page on Microsofts docs site here in regards to things like that:
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/release-health/status-windows-11-21h2

~ ~ ~

I'm not a fanboi for Windows, so don't get me wrong in defending it here like I have. Microsoft has certain done a lot of shitty things to Windows since Vista. I entirely disagree with their spyware telemetry nonsense they've been doing in 10 and 11. I also entirely disagree with the direction they took with Windows 11, but I am also happy to see they relaxed the requirements after massive backlash. (ie. SecureBoot and TPM are both optional now.) However, I still have no plans to touch 11 anytime soon as I completely dislike the changes made to the OS UI.

I use Windows 10 currently, but its heavily stripped down, locked down and customized to remove all the garbage and spyware nonsense. I was basically required to upgrade for work related reasons, as before that I was using a heavily modified version of 8.1.

I am rooting for Linux to do better, and with projects like Proton, it will definitely help get Linux to be taken more serious by hardware vendors to actually put in effort to make drivers for it. However, I also know how the community around Linux is and I don't personally think that has made enough improvements to get the traction of general users anytime soon. The mindset behind being anti-GUI and extremely arrogant towards new users will continue to keep most people from adopting it.

General users of any piece of tech just want something that works. As is, Windows and MacOS do great jobs at that. Linux doesn't. If something breaks on Windows or MacOS, there are loads of resources for getting help and having a UI based experience to get things resolved. On Linux, if something is not mainstream, you're likely going ot be stuck in a terminal manually entering commands. If something in a 2 page step-by-step guide of entering gibberish into a terminal goes wrong, that person isn't likely to stick around to figure out yet another solution. They are most likely going to go back to something they know just works.

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atom0s
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking of Linux security, just yesterday lol:
https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/linux-system-service-bug-gives-root-on-all-major-distros-exploit-released/

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good stuff atom0s, all good points, I am not going to argue on any of those, well said.
But I'll just put this out there:
It seems that damned chicken keeps crossing the street and we still have no clue why...
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

regarding SteamDeck

https://steamcommunity.com/groups/steamworks/announcements/detail/3142949576401813670

according to other sources, the expected release date is February.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Feb. 25th is now the official release date. They just announced this morning.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

atom0s got a link/guide for your windows 10 customization?
Linux still doesnt have (some) games and adobe applications, only reason I dont use it.

I dual boot but whats the purpose of switching OS all the time when windows can do most of what I'd use linux for and more (VS Code is a fine dev environment for what I do and its not harder to setup on windows than anything on linux would be)
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luplay2
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2022 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't imagine it.
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