Cheat Engine

[johnnygg]

hia,
I have some legal questions:
1. since client sided info is stored on MY computer, it shouldn't be illegal for me to change the values there-right?
1a. so if the game rules say don't do it, and I get caught doing it, all they can do is punish me in-game through bans, etc...no government involvement (I know that even if they did want to involve the gov, its too big of a headache for them to do it, but we're just talking hypothetical here). Am I wrong in assuming this--or am I breaking the law when I edit some values that are stored on my computer and changed by the game client?

2. I know, for a fact, that this is illegal--but the question is how illegal is it to break into the game server (how much trouble can I get in if I do it)-through sql injections, for example, or any other means.
2a. Lets say that I enter my credit card info for the cs or whatever, and the hosting company stores it on one of their servers, along with the rest of my profile info; would it be illegal for me to go and edit that info through an injection, or through other means beyond using their website or the game client?--its MY info after all.
2b. I know the sticky says we're not allowed to talk about intrusion attacks--but its not like we're talking methods here--if one of the mods thinks this is a topic that should not be discussed here, feel free to close/delete the thread

thanks,

johnny

[Psy]

Depends on where you are, but generally yes you're right. Temporarily memory-editing is fine. There is a general grey area where any sort of gamehacking is concerned. While it usually doesn't break any laws as such, it is frowned upon by developers, publishers and other people who haven't been a part of the scene. The line is most certainly crossed when you make permanent changes to files (that is, copyrighted files). This constitutes a breach of the EULA of most/all titles (SP/MP). These almost always clearly state about reversing engineering if you read through it.

MP games can also be memory edited legally in theory, however, the issue comes when this results in modified/malformed packets getting sent to the server. This can be considered an attack or attempted disruption on their systems and this is illegal. It could be pursued.

Breaking into a game server directly, IE. hacking is plain stupid. Don't even think about doing that sort of crap. You can get into a lot of bother. Again. it depends on where you are, but the penalty is generally severe. You would obviously need to know your stuff to be able to do that in the first place, but suppose you did, it would most likely be logged and you tracked down.

Same with the credit card issue. If you broke into a database, before you even changed anything you've already broken the law. If you then changed data, that would be even more evidence against you. Not to mention all this would violate some contract or some element in the small print that you just skipped over when signing up/paying.

I don't see any issue with discussing this here as it is theoretical (or i'm assuming it is!). What i've put is mainly drawn from events i've known of experience and pretty much just common sense. I'm not a lawyer or anything close, so there may be more that people wish to input. But don't go off an one people. Keep it clean and to the subject. Cheers ')

~Psy

[hcavolsdsadgadsg]

the chance of any real action being taken is basically nil unless you are doing something ridiculous like a deliberate, prolonged denial of service attack or trying to steal personal information. trying to claim that its your own information is dumb and is no excuse. you can easily get your ass fucked hard for something like that, not a good idea, at all.

though if you're just being a nuisance and flooding their servers or something, it's not necessarily possible for anything to be done outside of hoping their host null routes you to try and stop you from being a pain in the ass already. it can fall into cyber crime territory though, which can range in a number of things happening. more likely a slap on the wrist from your isp then termination of service unless you managed to do something hilariously massive in terms of damage, in which more severe methods may be used. (are you zero cool?)


as far as i know, nothing can be done about you going hog wild on whatever it is your client handles. if it's against the EULA, you'll probably be banned, and that's that. nobody sane gives a shit about what they figure is some kid being a dick and cheating like a jackass.

[Psy]

It's not about the chance of having anything done to you. That's pretty clear with the amount of people doing this that it would be a failed effort anyway. It's about the legalities of it, whether anything happens or not.

[johnnygg]

I see thanks for the input guys. Sorry it took forever for me to reply.

I know (just through the game) someone who basically goes out shopping, if he sees an item/something he likes on anyone, he through *insert magical server hacks here* breaks into the login server, grabs their username/password and logs in to the game to grab all their stuff. Here, no changes or damages are being done at all, and he's not taking someone's stuff through hacking, he's actually logging into their account and trading their stuff away. Could he really get away with that being legal (aside form the tos/eula agreement that he accepted by d/ling the game?
I know how secure login servers are, he's super pro lol
no I only met him in game and recognized him by name...he's known as a hacker in the game and he always comes back with that same username, the game admins can't do shit to him...idk how...(he actually stole a gm's account once)