Cheat Engine Forum Index Cheat Engine
The Official Site of Cheat Engine
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 


Hashes

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Cheat Engine Forum Index -> General programming
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
oib111
I post too much
Reputation: 0

Joined: 02 Apr 2007
Posts: 2947
Location: you wanna know why?

PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:12 pm    Post subject: Hashes Reply with quote

I was wondering how it's possible that hash's can't be decrypted? It's always something that has eluded me...I don't get why you can't just go backwards through the steps.
_________________


8D wrote:

cigs dont make people high, which weed does, which causes them to do bad stuff. like killing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Localhost
I post too much
Reputation: 0

Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 3402

PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is because the steps where made for it to be easy to go forward, and almost physically impossible to go backwards. Now, i said almost impossible... Meaning i think it is probable... Just VERY HARD THAT YOU CANT DO IT EVER!

Also... the reason why hashes cannot be reversed or decrypted... Since if they could be decrypted they are no longer considered a hash... Since hashes cannot be decrypted.

So, if you ever decrypt a hash, it is not a hash anymore...

All of this is AFAIK...

_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
HomerSexual
Grandmaster Cheater Supreme
Reputation: 5

Joined: 03 Feb 2007
Posts: 1657

PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 5:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dont you need the key they use to encrypt a hash to decrypt it?
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Localhost
I post too much
Reputation: 0

Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 3402

PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

blankrider wrote:
dont you need the key they use to encrypt a hash to decrypt it?


You would think that... Except you are confusing encryption and hashing... Which are two completely different things! They both fall under the category "cryptography", but they both are different....

Encryption can be countered with decryption... aka reversed (sometimes with a key). Hashing/hashes cannot be dehashed. They are algorithms made for the soul reason that THEY CANNOT BE DEHASHED.

Hashing was made to check the integrity of something... For example, in a database of username and passwords, the passwords would most likely be hashed in MD5... So, if anyone ever cracks the database (or the admin goes insane), they cannot go into the database to retrieve the passwords... Since they are hashed in MD5!

Now, how can they check the passwords together if they MD5 Hash cannot be reversed? When you input your password to login, it is hashed in MD5... It is then compared to the one in the database. If they are both the same hashes, you are permitted to login.

_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
SXGuy
I post too much
Reputation: 0

Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Posts: 3551

PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sorta right but not really.

if i md5 hashed a password, yes the result is an md5 hash, but i still had to use a password to hash in the first place.

therefore you could in theory reverse a hash if you knew the password, doesnt help to gain the password, but you can reverse it if you knew it.

for example, if you use php and mysql, and you store a password in mysql as md5 hash, you stll gotta input a password for it to hash before saving, then everytime you log in, your same password gets md5 hashed, and then checked against the md5 hash stored in the database.

therefore, it still needs to know the original value, before checking its hashed version.

As far as other hash types go, things like, checking a file size for example, the hash would make exactly to the file size, if you wanted to spoof the hash, then you need to make a file the exact same size as the hash version, you wont be able to do it adding or deleting junk since 1 byte off would mean a completely different hash.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
rapion124
Grandmaster Cheater Supreme
Reputation: 0

Joined: 25 Mar 2007
Posts: 1095

PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A hash gets truncated after it goes over the hash length. For example, if I hash 1kb of data and get a 128-bit hash, the data is truncated and lost because 128 bits cannot store 1kb of data.

Meanwhile, encryption preserves the original data. The encrypted data is usually close to the size of the original data. No data is lost, so it can be reversed.

Also, there's no such thing as cracking MD5. You're just hashing every possible combination of data to see if they have the same hash as the hash you have. While this might work, for every 2^LengthOfHash, there is one that works. This means there are an infinite number of possibilities.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kitterz
Grandmaster Cheater Supreme
Reputation: 0

Joined: 24 Dec 2007
Posts: 1268

PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rapion124 wrote:
A hash gets truncated after it goes over the hash length. For example, if I hash 1kb of data and get a 128-bit hash, the data is truncated and lost because 128 bits cannot store 1kb of data.

Meanwhile, encryption preserves the original data. The encrypted data is usually close to the size of the original data. No data is lost, so it can be reversed.

Also, there's no such thing as cracking MD5. You're just hashing every possible combination of data to see if they have the same hash as the hash you have. While this might work, for every 2^LengthOfHash, there is one that works. This means there are an infinite number of possibilities.


yes. though....rainbow tables ^.^ are good.

_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
oib111
I post too much
Reputation: 0

Joined: 02 Apr 2007
Posts: 2947
Location: you wanna know why?

PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rapion124 wrote:
A hash gets truncated after it goes over the hash length. For example, if I hash 1kb of data and get a 128-bit hash, the data is truncated and lost because 128 bits cannot store 1kb of data.

Meanwhile, encryption preserves the original data. The encrypted data is usually close to the size of the original data. No data is lost, so it can be reversed.

Also, there's no such thing as cracking MD5. You're just hashing every possible combination of data to see if they have the same hash as the hash you have. While this might work, for every 2^LengthOfHash, there is one that works. This means there are an infinite number of possibilities.


Thanks, so basically the reason hash's can't be reversed is because the object being hashed get's truncated? That still doesn't make total since, because if you hash 16 bytes with a 128-bit (16-byte) hash, it doesn't get truncated.

_________________


8D wrote:

cigs dont make people high, which weed does, which causes them to do bad stuff. like killing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Localhost
I post too much
Reputation: 0

Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 3402

PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oib111 wrote:
rapion124 wrote:
A hash gets truncated after it goes over the hash length. For example, if I hash 1kb of data and get a 128-bit hash, the data is truncated and lost because 128 bits cannot store 1kb of data.

Meanwhile, encryption preserves the original data. The encrypted data is usually close to the size of the original data. No data is lost, so it can be reversed.

Also, there's no such thing as cracking MD5. You're just hashing every possible combination of data to see if they have the same hash as the hash you have. While this might work, for every 2^LengthOfHash, there is one that works. This means there are an infinite number of possibilities.


Thanks, so basically the reason hash's can't be reversed is because the object being hashed get's truncated? That still doesn't make total since, because if you hash 16 bytes with a 128-bit (16-byte) hash, it doesn't get truncated.


Well, i guess there is one exception to the rule... Though it still will not help you reverse it since, no matter the input length-of-bytes, you will still get the same output length-of-bytes no matter the size of input...

so...

16bytes -> md5 -> 16 bytes
32bytes -> md5 -> 16 bytes

(AFAIK)

_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Cheat Engine Forum Index -> General programming All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

CE Wiki   IRC (#CEF)   Twitter
Third party websites