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oib111 I post too much
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Joined: 02 Apr 2007 Posts: 2947 Location: you wanna know why?
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Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:12 pm Post subject: Hashes |
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I was wondering how it's possible that hash's can't be decrypted? It's always something that has eluded me...I don't get why you can't just go backwards through the steps.
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| 8D wrote: |
cigs dont make people high, which weed does, which causes them to do bad stuff. like killing |
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Localhost I post too much
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Joined: 28 Apr 2007 Posts: 3402
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Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:00 am Post subject: |
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That is because the steps where made for it to be easy to go forward, and almost physically impossible to go backwards. Now, i said almost impossible... Meaning i think it is probable... Just VERY HARD THAT YOU CANT DO IT EVER!
Also... the reason why hashes cannot be reversed or decrypted... Since if they could be decrypted they are no longer considered a hash... Since hashes cannot be decrypted.
So, if you ever decrypt a hash, it is not a hash anymore...
All of this is AFAIK...
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HomerSexual Grandmaster Cheater Supreme
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Joined: 03 Feb 2007 Posts: 1657
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Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 5:25 am Post subject: |
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dont you need the key they use to encrypt a hash to decrypt it?
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Localhost I post too much
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Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 6:26 am Post subject: |
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| blankrider wrote: | | dont you need the key they use to encrypt a hash to decrypt it? |
You would think that... Except you are confusing encryption and hashing... Which are two completely different things! They both fall under the category "cryptography", but they both are different....
Encryption can be countered with decryption... aka reversed (sometimes with a key). Hashing/hashes cannot be dehashed. They are algorithms made for the soul reason that THEY CANNOT BE DEHASHED.
Hashing was made to check the integrity of something... For example, in a database of username and passwords, the passwords would most likely be hashed in MD5... So, if anyone ever cracks the database (or the admin goes insane), they cannot go into the database to retrieve the passwords... Since they are hashed in MD5!
Now, how can they check the passwords together if they MD5 Hash cannot be reversed? When you input your password to login, it is hashed in MD5... It is then compared to the one in the database. If they are both the same hashes, you are permitted to login.
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SXGuy I post too much
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Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:27 am Post subject: |
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sorta right but not really.
if i md5 hashed a password, yes the result is an md5 hash, but i still had to use a password to hash in the first place.
therefore you could in theory reverse a hash if you knew the password, doesnt help to gain the password, but you can reverse it if you knew it.
for example, if you use php and mysql, and you store a password in mysql as md5 hash, you stll gotta input a password for it to hash before saving, then everytime you log in, your same password gets md5 hashed, and then checked against the md5 hash stored in the database.
therefore, it still needs to know the original value, before checking its hashed version.
As far as other hash types go, things like, checking a file size for example, the hash would make exactly to the file size, if you wanted to spoof the hash, then you need to make a file the exact same size as the hash version, you wont be able to do it adding or deleting junk since 1 byte off would mean a completely different hash.
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rapion124 Grandmaster Cheater Supreme
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Joined: 25 Mar 2007 Posts: 1095
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Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:19 am Post subject: |
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A hash gets truncated after it goes over the hash length. For example, if I hash 1kb of data and get a 128-bit hash, the data is truncated and lost because 128 bits cannot store 1kb of data.
Meanwhile, encryption preserves the original data. The encrypted data is usually close to the size of the original data. No data is lost, so it can be reversed.
Also, there's no such thing as cracking MD5. You're just hashing every possible combination of data to see if they have the same hash as the hash you have. While this might work, for every 2^LengthOfHash, there is one that works. This means there are an infinite number of possibilities.
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kitterz Grandmaster Cheater Supreme
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Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 1268
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Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:51 am Post subject: |
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| rapion124 wrote: | A hash gets truncated after it goes over the hash length. For example, if I hash 1kb of data and get a 128-bit hash, the data is truncated and lost because 128 bits cannot store 1kb of data.
Meanwhile, encryption preserves the original data. The encrypted data is usually close to the size of the original data. No data is lost, so it can be reversed.
Also, there's no such thing as cracking MD5. You're just hashing every possible combination of data to see if they have the same hash as the hash you have. While this might work, for every 2^LengthOfHash, there is one that works. This means there are an infinite number of possibilities. |
yes. though....rainbow tables ^.^ are good.
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oib111 I post too much
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Joined: 02 Apr 2007 Posts: 2947 Location: you wanna know why?
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Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:32 am Post subject: |
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| rapion124 wrote: | A hash gets truncated after it goes over the hash length. For example, if I hash 1kb of data and get a 128-bit hash, the data is truncated and lost because 128 bits cannot store 1kb of data.
Meanwhile, encryption preserves the original data. The encrypted data is usually close to the size of the original data. No data is lost, so it can be reversed.
Also, there's no such thing as cracking MD5. You're just hashing every possible combination of data to see if they have the same hash as the hash you have. While this might work, for every 2^LengthOfHash, there is one that works. This means there are an infinite number of possibilities. |
Thanks, so basically the reason hash's can't be reversed is because the object being hashed get's truncated? That still doesn't make total since, because if you hash 16 bytes with a 128-bit (16-byte) hash, it doesn't get truncated.
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| 8D wrote: |
cigs dont make people high, which weed does, which causes them to do bad stuff. like killing |
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Localhost I post too much
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Joined: 28 Apr 2007 Posts: 3402
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Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:48 am Post subject: |
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| oib111 wrote: | | rapion124 wrote: | A hash gets truncated after it goes over the hash length. For example, if I hash 1kb of data and get a 128-bit hash, the data is truncated and lost because 128 bits cannot store 1kb of data.
Meanwhile, encryption preserves the original data. The encrypted data is usually close to the size of the original data. No data is lost, so it can be reversed.
Also, there's no such thing as cracking MD5. You're just hashing every possible combination of data to see if they have the same hash as the hash you have. While this might work, for every 2^LengthOfHash, there is one that works. This means there are an infinite number of possibilities. |
Thanks, so basically the reason hash's can't be reversed is because the object being hashed get's truncated? That still doesn't make total since, because if you hash 16 bytes with a 128-bit (16-byte) hash, it doesn't get truncated. |
Well, i guess there is one exception to the rule... Though it still will not help you reverse it since, no matter the input length-of-bytes, you will still get the same output length-of-bytes no matter the size of input...
so...
16bytes -> md5 -> 16 bytes
32bytes -> md5 -> 16 bytes
(AFAIK)
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