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HackOtaku
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 Posted: Tue May 10, 2016 11:25 am Post subject: Can anything really be unnatural? |
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| If humans come from nature and are a part of nature (which if you exclude religious theories and beliefs in a grand creator this is true) then is anything really "unnatural ". It seems like even saying something is unnatural if it is man-made is putting man on a pedastal above nature. Granted, the term "natural" is generally understood to mean without human interference, but I'm trying to say that such distinctions are really a silly thing. We possess intelligence, but we developed intelligence through nature. Just as apple trees produce apples and vines produce grapes, so do humans produce train tracks, airplanes, and junk food. You can say this is essentially a question of free will vs determinism I suppose, but when you really boil down the reason that anyone does anything you come to the same conclusion: it's in their nature to do that.
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HitIer
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| Posted: Tue May 10, 2016 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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You're a bit late in realizing this
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| t328163 wrote: | | Your username derives from the fact that this site cannot format special characters lol. |
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lmfao, on reddit i'd get banned |
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teeigeryuh
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| Posted: Tue May 10, 2016 2:49 pm Post subject: Re: Can anything really be unnatural? |
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| HackOtaku wrote: | | If humans come from nature and are a part of nature (which if you exclude religious theories and beliefs in a grand creator this is true) then is anything really "unnatural ". It seems like even saying something is unnatural if it is man-made is putting man on a pedastal above nature. Granted, the term "natural" is generally understood to mean without human interference, but I'm trying to say that such distinctions are really a silly thing. We possess intelligence, but we developed intelligence through nature. Just as apple trees produce apples and vines produce grapes, so do humans produce train tracks, airplanes, and junk food. You can say this is essentially a question of free will vs determinism I suppose, but when you really boil down the reason that anyone does anything you come to the same conclusion: it's in their nature to do that. |
don't make this hard lol
natural and unnatural are just names whos meaning changes with context, technichally nothing is unnatural since everything came from nature, but we use the word unnatural to refer to anything that was not made on its own but by human behavior
you're giving a different context to natural and unnatural
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HackOtaku
I posted the 500000th topic
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| Posted: Tue May 10, 2016 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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| GannoK wrote: | | You're a bit late in realizing this |
Must have been sick that day in school.
@teeig: what i am trying to say is that the distinction is irrelevant and potentially flawed.
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emil
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| Posted: Tue May 10, 2016 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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| To me the question of free will is sort of a non-issue. Free will is there, it's painfully obvious, like an axiom of our being.
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HackOtaku
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| Posted: Tue May 10, 2016 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Emil wrote: | | To me the question of free will is sort of a non-issue. Free will is there, it's painfully obvious, like an axiom of our being. |
I'm on the fence about it. It seems like we have it, because we think we are making rational decisions about what we do, but then where do these decisions come from? From past experiences that you use to try and predict the future results of your actions. You only have exactly your past to go on, and your behavior is going to be decided by what you "think" is right based on those past events, and as such, wouldn't you always be brought to do the thing that you "believe" is best to do based on the past? And your past events are just a series of other "decisions" you believe to have made, so at what point can you actually say you've made this decision vs it being the thing you were always going to do anyway? I don't know that I am putting what I am trying to say into words properly though.
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emil
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| Posted: Tue May 10, 2016 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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| HackOtaku wrote: | | Emil wrote: | | To me the question of free will is sort of a non-issue. Free will is there, it's painfully obvious, like an axiom of our being. |
I'm on the fence about it. It seems like we have it, because we think we are making rational decisions about what we do, but then where do these decisions come from? From past experiences that you use to try and predict the future results of your actions. You only have exactly your past to go on, and your behavior is going to be decided by what you "think" is right based on those past events, and as such, wouldn't you always be brought to do the thing that you "believe" is best to do based on the past? And your past events are just a series of other "decisions" you believe to have made, so at what point can you actually say you've made this decision vs it being the thing you were always going to do anyway? I don't know that I am putting what I am trying to say into words properly though. |
You're basically arguing free will is an illusion. I agree. Reality is also an illusion. But it's the most real thing we can relate to. So from our frame of reference it's real. Outside our frame of reference it's... Well, irrelevant really?
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HackOtaku
I posted the 500000th topic
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| Posted: Tue May 10, 2016 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Emil wrote: | | HackOtaku wrote: | | Emil wrote: | | To me the question of free will is sort of a non-issue. Free will is there, it's painfully obvious, like an axiom of our being. |
I'm on the fence about it. It seems like we have it, because we think we are making rational decisions about what we do, but then where do these decisions come from? From past experiences that you use to try and predict the future results of your actions. You only have exactly your past to go on, and your behavior is going to be decided by what you "think" is right based on those past events, and as such, wouldn't you always be brought to do the thing that you "believe" is best to do based on the past? And your past events are just a series of other "decisions" you believe to have made, so at what point can you actually say you've made this decision vs it being the thing you were always going to do anyway? I don't know that I am putting what I am trying to say into words properly though. |
You're basically arguing free will is an illusion. I agree. Reality is also an illusion. But it's the most real thing we can relate to. So from our frame of reference it's real. Outside our frame of reference it's... Well, irrelevant really? |
Are you saying reality or free will is the most real thing you can relate to? I'm not sold on the idea that reality is an illusion.
Last edited by HackOtaku on Tue May 10, 2016 5:04 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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emil
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| Posted: Tue May 10, 2016 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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| HackOtaku wrote: | | Emil wrote: | | HackOtaku wrote: | | Emil wrote: | | To me the question of free will is sort of a non-issue. Free will is there, it's painfully obvious, like an axiom of our being. |
I'm on the fence about it. It seems like we have it, because we think we are making rational decisions about what we do, but then where do these decisions come from? From past experiences that you use to try and predict the future results of your actions. You only have exactly your past to go on, and your behavior is going to be decided by what you "think" is right based on those past events, and as such, wouldn't you always be brought to do the thing that you "believe" is best to do based on the past? And your past events are just a series of other "decisions" you believe to have made, so at what point can you actually say you've made this decision vs it being the thing you were always going to do anyway? I don't know that I am putting what I am trying to say into words properly though. |
You're basically arguing free will is an illusion. I agree. Reality is also an illusion. But it's the most real thing we can relate to. So from our frame of reference it's real. Outside our frame of reference it's... Well, irrelevant really? |
Are you saying reality or free will is the most real thing you can relate to? I'm not sold on the idea that reality is an illusion. |
I am talking about reality and I'm not sure how to sell that one to you. Get back to you later 
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HackOtaku
I posted the 500000th topic
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| Posted: Tue May 10, 2016 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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| In what way do you feel it's an illusion? I feel as though external things exist in some form separate from ourselves.
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BreakinGods
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| Posted: Tue May 10, 2016 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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| PrinceFroggy wrote: | | HackOtaku wrote: | | In what way do you feel it's an illusion? I feel as though external things exist in some form separate from ourselves. |
by me conditioning you then that I am god...
you came to this thought of posting
aka im ur puppeteer |
stay in your section
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finnegan waking up
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 6:37 am Post subject: |
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disbelief in Allah and His Message
being a transgressor.
capitalism.
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Channel GannoK
pffrt
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 8:13 am Post subject: |
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| Quit denying Allah and go full islamist communist like talix
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finnegan waking up
How do I cheat?
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 8:16 am Post subject: |
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| Channel GannoK wrote: | | Quit denying Allah and go full islamist communist like talix |
man can you at least see my point? if unnatural is without interference from man, and if you consider the driving point of nature to be the creator, then yes, of course, going against this is unnatural.
and, ofc., you may not be able to apply all of Qur'an, but certainly, a species does not thrive through murder, and doing just so is against Allah's word. a species thrives through equal opportunity, social and financial support from all members allots a species to thrive. these are commandments in Allah's Word, to support each other and be united. to not do so must be unnatural.
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