| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
HackOtaku
I posted the 500000th topic
 Reputation: 81
Joined: 31 May 2007
Posts: 228
|
 Posted: Tue May 10, 2016 11:25 am Post subject: Can anything really be unnatural? |
 |
|
| If humans come from nature and are a part of nature (which if you exclude religious theories and beliefs in a grand creator this is true) then is anything really "unnatural ". It seems like even saying something is unnatural if it is man-made is putting man on a pedastal above nature. Granted, the term "natural" is generally understood to mean without human interference, but I'm trying to say that such distinctions are really a silly thing. We possess intelligence, but we developed intelligence through nature. Just as apple trees produce apples and vines produce grapes, so do humans produce train tracks, airplanes, and junk food. You can say this is essentially a question of free will vs determinism I suppose, but when you really boil down the reason that anyone does anything you come to the same conclusion: it's in their nature to do that. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
HitIer
How do I cheat?
![]() Reputation: 22
Joined: 09 Feb 2013
Posts: 0
Location: Location Location Location
|
| Posted: Tue May 10, 2016 2:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
You're a bit late in realizing this
_________________
With self driving cars, CE can work in real life
| t328163 wrote: | | Your username derives from the fact that this site cannot format special characters lol. |
| t328163 wrote: |
lmfao, on reddit i'd get banned |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
teeigeryuh
Master Cheater
 Reputation: 25
Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 262
Location: The netherlands
|
| Posted: Tue May 10, 2016 2:49 pm Post subject: Re: Can anything really be unnatural? |
|
|
| HackOtaku wrote: | | If humans come from nature and are a part of nature (which if you exclude religious theories and beliefs in a grand creator this is true) then is anything really "unnatural ". It seems like even saying something is unnatural if it is man-made is putting man on a pedastal above nature. Granted, the term "natural" is generally understood to mean without human interference, but I'm trying to say that such distinctions are really a silly thing. We possess intelligence, but we developed intelligence through nature. Just as apple trees produce apples and vines produce grapes, so do humans produce train tracks, airplanes, and junk food. You can say this is essentially a question of free will vs determinism I suppose, but when you really boil down the reason that anyone does anything you come to the same conclusion: it's in their nature to do that. |
don't make this hard lol
natural and unnatural are just names whos meaning changes with context, technichally nothing is unnatural since everything came from nature, but we use the word unnatural to refer to anything that was not made on its own but by human behavior
you're giving a different context to natural and unnatural
_________________
ლ(╹◡╹ლ) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
HackOtaku
I posted the 500000th topic
Reputation: 81
Joined: 31 May 2007
Posts: 228
|
| Posted: Tue May 10, 2016 2:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| GannoK wrote: | | You're a bit late in realizing this |
Must have been sick that day in school.
@teeig: what i am trying to say is that the distinction is irrelevant and potentially flawed. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
emil
Expert Cheater
![]() Reputation: 41
Joined: 06 Dec 2008
Posts: 239
|
| Posted: Tue May 10, 2016 3:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| To me the question of free will is sort of a non-issue. Free will is there, it's painfully obvious, like an axiom of our being. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
HackOtaku
I posted the 500000th topic
Reputation: 81
Joined: 31 May 2007
Posts: 228
|
| Posted: Tue May 10, 2016 3:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Emil wrote: | | To me the question of free will is sort of a non-issue. Free will is there, it's painfully obvious, like an axiom of our being. |
I'm on the fence about it. It seems like we have it, because we think we are making rational decisions about what we do, but then where do these decisions come from? From past experiences that you use to try and predict the future results of your actions. You only have exactly your past to go on, and your behavior is going to be decided by what you "think" is right based on those past events, and as such, wouldn't you always be brought to do the thing that you "believe" is best to do based on the past? And your past events are just a series of other "decisions" you believe to have made, so at what point can you actually say you've made this decision vs it being the thing you were always going to do anyway? I don't know that I am putting what I am trying to say into words properly though. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
emil
Expert Cheater
![]() Reputation: 41
Joined: 06 Dec 2008
Posts: 239
|
| Posted: Tue May 10, 2016 3:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| HackOtaku wrote: | | Emil wrote: | | To me the question of free will is sort of a non-issue. Free will is there, it's painfully obvious, like an axiom of our being. |
I'm on the fence about it. It seems like we have it, because we think we are making rational decisions about what we do, but then where do these decisions come from? From past experiences that you use to try and predict the future results of your actions. You only have exactly your past to go on, and your behavior is going to be decided by what you "think" is right based on those past events, and as such, wouldn't you always be brought to do the thing that you "believe" is best to do based on the past? And your past events are just a series of other "decisions" you believe to have made, so at what point can you actually say you've made this decision vs it being the thing you were always going to do anyway? I don't know that I am putting what I am trying to say into words properly though. |
You're basically arguing free will is an illusion. I agree. Reality is also an illusion. But it's the most real thing we can relate to. So from our frame of reference it's real. Outside our frame of reference it's... Well, irrelevant really? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
HackOtaku
I posted the 500000th topic
Reputation: 81
Joined: 31 May 2007
Posts: 228
|
| Posted: Tue May 10, 2016 4:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Emil wrote: | | HackOtaku wrote: | | Emil wrote: | | To me the question of free will is sort of a non-issue. Free will is there, it's painfully obvious, like an axiom of our being. |
I'm on the fence about it. It seems like we have it, because we think we are making rational decisions about what we do, but then where do these decisions come from? From past experiences that you use to try and predict the future results of your actions. You only have exactly your past to go on, and your behavior is going to be decided by what you "think" is right based on those past events, and as such, wouldn't you always be brought to do the thing that you "believe" is best to do based on the past? And your past events are just a series of other "decisions" you believe to have made, so at what point can you actually say you've made this decision vs it being the thing you were always going to do anyway? I don't know that I am putting what I am trying to say into words properly though. |
You're basically arguing free will is an illusion. I agree. Reality is also an illusion. But it's the most real thing we can relate to. So from our frame of reference it's real. Outside our frame of reference it's... Well, irrelevant really? |
Are you saying reality or free will is the most real thing you can relate to? I'm not sold on the idea that reality is an illusion.
Last edited by HackOtaku on Tue May 10, 2016 5:04 pm; edited 2 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
emil
Expert Cheater
![]() Reputation: 41
Joined: 06 Dec 2008
Posts: 239
|
| Posted: Tue May 10, 2016 5:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| HackOtaku wrote: | | Emil wrote: | | HackOtaku wrote: | | Emil wrote: | | To me the question of free will is sort of a non-issue. Free will is there, it's painfully obvious, like an axiom of our being. |
I'm on the fence about it. It seems like we have it, because we think we are making rational decisions about what we do, but then where do these decisions come from? From past experiences that you use to try and predict the future results of your actions. You only have exactly your past to go on, and your behavior is going to be decided by what you "think" is right based on those past events, and as such, wouldn't you always be brought to do the thing that you "believe" is best to do based on the past? And your past events are just a series of other "decisions" you believe to have made, so at what point can you actually say you've made this decision vs it being the thing you were always going to do anyway? I don't know that I am putting what I am trying to say into words properly though. |
You're basically arguing free will is an illusion. I agree. Reality is also an illusion. But it's the most real thing we can relate to. So from our frame of reference it's real. Outside our frame of reference it's... Well, irrelevant really? |
Are you saying reality or free will is the most real thing you can relate to? I'm not sold on the idea that reality is an illusion. |
I am talking about reality and I'm not sure how to sell that one to you. Get back to you later  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
HackOtaku
I posted the 500000th topic
Reputation: 81
Joined: 31 May 2007
Posts: 228
|
| Posted: Tue May 10, 2016 5:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| In what way do you feel it's an illusion? I feel as though external things exist in some form separate from ourselves. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BreakinGods
How do I cheat?
 Reputation: 17
Joined: 13 Jan 2013
Posts: 0
|
| Posted: Tue May 10, 2016 6:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| PrinceFroggy wrote: | | HackOtaku wrote: | | In what way do you feel it's an illusion? I feel as though external things exist in some form separate from ourselves. |
by me conditioning you then that I am god...
you came to this thought of posting
aka im ur puppeteer |
stay in your section
_________________
I'm a young producer and rapper from Washington D.C. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
finnegan waking up
How do I cheat?
 Reputation: 13
Joined: 05 Aug 2014
Posts: 0
|
| Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 6:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
disbelief in Allah and His Message
being a transgressor.
capitalism. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Channel GannoK
pffrt
 Reputation: 130
Joined: 12 Apr 2008
Posts: 608
|
| Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 8:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quit denying Allah and go full islamist communist like talix |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
finnegan waking up
How do I cheat?
Reputation: 13
Joined: 05 Aug 2014
Posts: 0
|
| Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 8:16 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Channel GannoK wrote: | | Quit denying Allah and go full islamist communist like talix |
man can you at least see my point? if unnatural is without interference from man, and if you consider the driving point of nature to be the creator, then yes, of course, going against this is unnatural.
and, ofc., you may not be able to apply all of Qur'an, but certainly, a species does not thrive through murder, and doing just so is against Allah's word. a species thrives through equal opportunity, social and financial support from all members allots a species to thrive. these are commandments in Allah's Word, to support each other and be united. to not do so must be unnatural. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
