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whats the best programming language to start out with?
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luvaddict411
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 7:42 pm    Post subject: whats the best programming language to start out with? Reply with quote

i learned a little bit of python but i dont understand how thats gonna help me make a program to hack a game , or to crack into a website
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atom0s
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I doubt people will teach you how to do illegal things such as hacking into websites on these forums. As for hacking games, the better of the languages to learn, in my opinion, would be C/C++ or ASM. Everyone has their own opinions and suggestions, so it's really up to you which you want to learn.

Each language has its ups and downs, advantages and disadvantages and so on, so again, it's really up to you.

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samuri25404
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll give you some pro's and con's of a couple--in my opinion:

Code:

ASSEMBLY:

Pros:
can manage the hardware like no other
strongest
fastest

Cons:
hard to work with, hard to read
can screw your computer up to no end (because it can interact with the hardware so easily)


Code:

C++:

Pros:
Very strong
Pretty fast
Inline asm

Cons:
Not very user friendly
Can screw up your computer pretty badly if you do something wrong (my dad had a friend who once overwrote part of his harddrive with a buffer overflow)


Code:

C#

Pros:
Pretty user friendly
Can still do things, like API Calls, use pointers (unsafe context)
.Net Framework

Cons:
No inline ASM
A little slow because it runs on the ILASM (Intermediate Language Assembly), instead of actual assembly, and is "compiled on the dot"


Code:

VB:

Pros:
...
Can work with Flash well?
Beginner language

Cons:
Beginniner Language
VERY little power

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

.NET dependency is not a good thing.
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atom0s
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@samuri25404: I would have to disagree with your list for VB.

Visual Basic was not made for beginners to programming to move into other languages later on. It was created for RAD (rapid application development) programming using GUIs. Along with that, it's also a "third-generation" language deriving from it's earlier forms of BASIC which I'm sure most of the programmers on these forums have used / seen before as it was all there was "back in the day".

Along with that the main focus of Visual Basic was not for what users of these forums use it for. It was created for database access with the ease of development.

As much as everyone thinks it's dirt, it's not. It can keep up with other languages. Yes, it's not as easy to do something in VB as it would be in another language such as C++ but that doesn't mean it's not possible. VB, just like almost all other languages, has access to the Windows API which enables you to do just about anything you wish. In my opinion the pros and cons of VB would be:


Pros:
- Fast application development.
- Ease of use while creating GUI components.
- Easily create custom controls.
- Full plugin system allowing complete control of the IDE allowing the use of other languages inline.
- Customizable linker to allow linking to other languages to embed code.
- Ability to compile to P-Code / Native on the fly.

Cons:
- API declaration instead of easy includes.
- Structures are forced 4 bytes in memory. (Can hack this to get it to work as needed, just not native.)
- Debugging an program is not compiled to test but instead creating during runtime of the IDE. Thus resulting in IDE crashing when using certain code such as sub-classing. (Can be avoided with some plugins.)

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samuri25404
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

Pros:
- Fast application development.
- Ease of use while creating GUI components.
- Easily create custom controls.
- Full plugin system allowing complete control of the IDE allowing the use of other languages inline.
- Customizable linker to allow linking to other languages to embed code.
- Ability to compile to P-Code / Native on the fly


C#:
Quote:

- Fast application development.
- Ease of use while creating GUI components.
- Easily create custom controls.

I'm not sure what the following is:

Quote:
- Ability to compile to P-Code / Native on the fly


However, C#, gives the ability to create fixed memory things, so that the .NET Garbage Collector doesn't mess with your pointers and what not; speaking of that, C# HAS pointers, and unsafe code.

C++ has native unsafe code.

Where does VB put in that?

~~~~~

I believe it was Flyte that said something like:

Someone wrote:

BASIC is an acronym that stands for Beginners.. [and then some other stuff]

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Flyte
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

samuri25404 wrote:
I believe it was Flyte that said something like:

Someone wrote:

BASIC is an acronym that stands for Beginners.. [and then some other stuff]


Beginner's All-purpose Symbolic Instruction Code Smile
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samuri25404
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thought so.

=P

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

samuri25404 wrote:

Code:

ASSEMBLY:

Pros:
can manage the hardware like no other
strongest
fastest

Cons:
hard to work with, hard to read
can screw your computer up to no end (because it can interact with the hardware so easily)



"hard to work with, hard to read" -> subjective. for many people, assembly was their introduction to computer programming
"can screw your computer up to no end" -> that's why we have rings

The most pervasive disadvantage is the lack of portability, that's what C was meant to address.

Wiccaan... is a VB sympathizer. He tries to use VB in a way it was not intended to be used, and praises VB for it. What he does (Using DllFunctionCall instead of vb's own functions) is just like P/Invoke in .NET, a hack. Instead of embracing the much needed updates to the language, he stays with the 1998 revision, a proof of his stubbornness. He's fine with hacking the language, (custom linkers etc) to the point where you wouldn't recognize it anymore and tries to equate that to real VB, or his knowledge and skillset as representative of the average VB programmer.

VB's selling point was anyone could get a graphical programming up and running in a few minutes. It allows non-programmers to create quick scripts for basic business tasks. VB was never meant to be a general purpose programming language. Wiccaan is upset because the language he invested so much time into isn't relevant anymore, and is lashing out at newbies, encouraging them to go down the same dark path he did. Don't.

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rooski
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

definatly has to be assembly ,its not as hard as all people say ,only reason they say it is becuase its what they hear from other people ,or read somewhere ,but if you just ask them how long they have been studying it for,becuase most people dont even give it a chance ,sure its one of the hardest languages to learn ,but it will benifite you the most over all ,and if you get good at it ,you will be able to write better prgrams than most other people using something like c++ ,so i would say assembly ,and dont be discouraged at your first look at it ,it seems like it is impossible to learn ,but you'll get there.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

appalsap wrote:
Wiccaan... is a VB sympathizer. He tries to use VB in a way it was not intended to be used, and praises VB for it. What he does (Using DllFunctionCall instead of vb's own functions) is just like P/Invoke in .NET, a hack. Instead of embracing the much needed updates to the language, he stays with the 1998 revision, a proof of his stubbornness. He's fine with hacking the language, (custom linkers etc) to the point where you wouldn't recognize it anymore and tries to equate that to real VB, or his knowledge and skillset as representative of the average VB programmer.


Lol, hardly. Don't try to criticize me when you haven't the slighest clue. Do you know what a plugin system is for? To extend the ability of the given program. Not to just sit there and look pretty. The linker is coded in VB as well, and you can recode it in VB to do what you want. It does not make it any different, it allows you to extend what the language already currently does. As for being stubborn for not upgrading? No. I choose not to upgrade because I highly dislike the .NET framework.

Again, you make assumptions based on your opinions. Learn some facts, get to know me, etc. before you post things about me.

appalsap wrote:
VB's selling point was anyone could get a graphical programming up and running in a few minutes. It allows non-programmers to create quick scripts for basic business tasks. VB was never meant to be a general purpose programming language. Wiccaan is upset because the language he invested so much time into isn't relevant anymore, and is lashing out at newbies, encouraging them to go down the same dark path he did. Don't.


Invested time in? I was given a book from a friend after I had already known BASIC from 3.11 days. I choose to go into VB5/6 on my own and programmed in it for fun. I'm not upset about anything, I was just stating my opinion of the matter. As for encouraging people? Did you even read my first post in this topic. I suggested C/C++ or ASM. I don't encourage others to program in VB. I simply defend the language from "haters" like you that bash it for no reason simply cause you choose to dislike it.

Again, you are making assumptions.

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NINTENDO
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

samuri25404 wrote:
I'll give you some pro's and con's of a couple--in my opinion:

Code:

ASSEMBLY:

Pros:
can manage the hardware like no other
strongest
fastest

Cons:
hard to work with, hard to read
can screw your computer up to no end (because it can interact with the hardware so easily)


Code:

C++:

Pros:
Very strong
Pretty fast
Inline asm

Cons:
Not very user friendly
Can screw up your computer pretty badly if you do something wrong (my dad had a friend who once overwrote part of his harddrive with a buffer overflow)


Code:

C#

Pros:
Pretty user friendly
Can still do things, like API Calls, use pointers (unsafe context)
.Net Framework

Cons:
No inline ASM
A little slow because it runs on the ILASM (Intermediate Language Assembly), instead of actual assembly, and is "compiled on the dot"


Code:

VB:

Pros:
...
Can work with Flash well?
Beginner language

Cons:
Beginniner Language
VERY little power


YOU know nothin'..... Vb is powerfull -.-
Vb can do many things.. Wonderfull things..

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Binary
Code:

Pros:
Most powerful programming language
You only need 2 numbers to be able to program
The beginning of computers and all programming languages

Cons:
Impossible to read
Takes so long just to make a hello world program
You will have no Idea what you are doing
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DeletedUser14087
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just start with C, then from C move to anythign you want.

it's like kindergarden, you start with it and move to a new place Smile

C is allways the start to the programming world.

and btw, don't ask questions like again, there's no "best" language, they're all the same and everyone have their own offensive, you'll get the point
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes there is a best language, the thing is there are best languages for specific things. VB is best for trainers, Java is good for making games that you don't want hacked, Delphi is good for making UCE, and assembly for scripts and bypasses.
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